Fidelity to the Word
Our Lord and His Holy Apostles at the Last Supper


A blog dedicated to Christ Jesus our Lord and His True Presence in the Holy Mystery of the Eucharist


The Lord Jesus, the same night in which He was betrayed, took bread, and giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye and eat, this is My Body which shall be delivered for you; this do for the commemoration of Me. In like manner also the chalice.

Saturday, February 10, 2007

"Consubstantial this, pal"

Some progressives are still fighting against a correct translation of the words of consecration in the novus ordo Mass, or as this blogger puts it: "the very tendentious 'which will be shed for you and for many' in the institution narrative of the Eucharistic prayer".

What a strange opinion, that the direct translation of our Lord's words, chosen, apparently, by every single translator of the Gospels into English, is "tendentious", while an inaccurate paraphrase, used in no Gospel translation, is to be preferred.

From the Gospel of Matthew in Aramaic:

From Matthew 26:28, in AramaicNotice that "for many" is two words in Aramaic, not the single word that the blogger claims, and that translating directly from Aramaic to English, the correct translation is still "for many", not "for all".

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Friday, November 17, 2006

About "pro multis" #3

Next I posted a couple somewhat uncharitable messages to the About "pro multis" thread.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rykell
Who is to say whether Matthew or Luke spoke Jesus's words?
Still using St. Matthew's Gospel to attack the credibility of St. Luke's, and vice versa, I see. Where does either Evangelist claim to be providing a complete transcript of our Lord's words at the Last Supper? St. Luke says our Lord said "for you", St. Matthew says our Lord said "for many", and the Church in its Liturgies says that He said "for you and for many".

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear06
Quote:
"hoi pollen" means "the many" and is a phrase not found in Matthew 26:28, making it irrelevant to a discussion of the consecration.
Sigh! While we'll never agree, even Alex has admitted that it be defined as more than just the words "the many". Many, multitude, populace, masses... And I'm sure Alex will be chiming in here to say that none of these mean more than many to which I don't agree. Again, I'm in good company and happy to be here.
You have missed my point entirely. Any interpretation you choose to give the phrase "hoi pollen" has nothing to do with the meaning of Matthew 26:28, because the phrase does not occur there. I gave you a link to a word by word translation Matthew 26:28 from Greek to English , so you could go see it for yourself.
__________________
when the time comes for perfecting the sacrament, the priest uses no longer his own words, but the words of Christ ... it is Christ's words that perfect this sacrament
- St. Ambrose

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And then more speculation than I usually indulge in:

Quote:
Originally Posted by boppysbud View Post
So are we to assume that Jesus only died for SOME people, but not all?

Are we now to become Calvinists? How are we to know who makes it to the predestined, the so called "elect" and who is just out of luck no matter what they do?

When I left Protestantism I THOUGHT I was leaving Calvinism far behind. Was I mistaken?

If God has already chosen who Jesus died for, and who he did not die for, then why even fool with baptism and going to Mass everything is already "fixed" no matter what we do or do not do.
A common Catholic belief is that God is outside of time and can see the entire history of the universe. He already knows the choices you will freely make. What you do in life matters, because God is a just judge. "The elect" are those who enter heaven, but the phrase does not imply double-predestination. "The elect" enter heaven because God wills what is good for them, and they consent to His will. The damned reject God and He does not force Himself on them.

Perhaps Jesus at the Last Supper refrained from praying for those eventually damned because He did not want to increase their blameworthiness. Perhaps, on the eve of His suffering, He wanted to show His love particularly for those who return His love.

Some say that both the blessed and the damned are surrounded by the same glory of God, but that the experience of God's glory is joyful for some and painful to others, depending on the state of their souls. Maybe when Christ our God pays particular attention to people, they experience His glory more intensely, so it would have been a blessing to the saved for Christ to attend to them, and a mercy to the damned for Christ in some sense to pull away from them.

Please note the maybes and the perhapses. If this doesn't help, I'm sure you can find a better explanation. May God help us to know and love the truth and forgive errors made in good faith.

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Notice that the last sentence can be read two different ways.

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I very nearly had the last word in this thread. Because of the acrimony of the debate, a moderator closed the thread while I was working on this reply:

Re: About "pro multis"

From your first reference:
According to your own reference, hoi polloi means the common people, as opposed to the elite. Since hoi polloi does not include the elite, it does not include all people and does not mean all.

Why are you bothering to argue about the meaning of hoi polloi, anyway? If you look up Matthew 26 in the original Greek, you will see Jesus quoted as saying He was shedding His blood περί πολλών, not περί των πολλών, that is, for many, not for the many. You are arguing about a phrase that does not appear in the Gospel passages from which the words of consecration are drawn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear06 View Post
From dictionary.com
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/hoi%20polloi
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hoi%20polloi

I actually wished they had a better one on-line but dictionary.com will do in this instance although I'm sure someone will challenge its veracity. Netmilsmom wanted dictionary.com, so here it is. Notice the long lenghty list of synonyms. And, I don't believe that you required Alex to give his on-line reference, Netmilsmom. Also, if you notice, Alex has agreed to other definitions than his original. The big argument now is whether the masses, the populace, etc. are all. I think yes, you think no. Got it.

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And I had notes for replying to this post:
...However, St. Thomas does indeed describe that "pro multis" can be interpreted in two senses, "for all" and "for many" depending upon if it regards sufficiency or it regards efficacy. ...

My reply:

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the commentaries of St. Thomas on the Sentences of Peter Lombard "furnished the materials and, in great part, the plan for his chief work, the Summa theologica".

That shows in the passages you have cited from his Summa and his Commentary; St. Thomas mentions the same objection in both to our Lord's words "for you and for many", and gives the same replies.

The objection has two parts: (a) if our Blessed Savior spoke of the sufficiency of His sacrifice, He should have said "for all", (b) if He spoke of the efficacy of His sacrifice, He should have just said "for many".

In the Summa, before he gets to his answer to objection 8, in his reply to objection 2 ( S. Th., III, q. 78, art. 3 ad 2), St. Thomas says"mention is made of the fruits of the Passion in the consecration of the blood". By the "fruits of the Passion", he means what the Passion accomplishes, i.e. its efficacy. This is the same terminology used in the Roman Catechism, quoted ealier in this thread here, here and here.

In his reply to objection 8 in the Summa, and objection 7 in His commentary, St. Thomas justifies our Lord's words by saying that our Lord's Passion has its efficacy not merely in the elect among the Jews, but also in the Gentiles; not merely in those that receive Sacramentally, but also in those for whom the sacrament is offered. Since St. Thomas justifies our Lord's words by talking about the efficacy of His Sacrifice, it is evident that he believes that our Lord was Himself talking about the efficacy of His sacrifice.

The Angelic Doctor does not say that "for many" can mean "for all"; he explains why Jesus Christ said "for many" instead of "for all".

Summa Objection 8.
Further, as was already observed (48, 2; 49, 3), Christ's Passion sufficed for all; while as to its efficacy it was profitable for many. Therefore it ought to be said: "Which shall be shed for all," or else "for many," without adding, "for you."
Commentary Objection 7:
"In addition, the expression pro vobis et pro multis effundetur is taken concerning the shedding as regards sufficiency or as regards efficacy. If, as regards sufficiency, thus it was shed for all, not only for many; but if as regards the efficacy which it has only in the elect, it does not seem that there should be a distinction between the Apostles and the others."

Reply to Objection 8.
The blood of Christ's Passion has its efficacy not merely in the elect among the Jews, to whom the blood of the Old Testament was exhibited, but also in the Gentiles; nor only in priests who consecrate this sacrament, and in those others who partake of it; but likewise in those for whom it is offered. And therefore He says expressly, "for you," the Jews, "and for many," namely the Gentiles; or, "for you" who eat of it, and "for many," for whom it is offered.
Reply to Objection 7.
To the seventh objection it is to be said that the Blood of Christ was poured out for all as regards sufficiency, but for the elect only as regards efficacy; and, lest it should be thought to have been poured out only for the elect Jews, to whom the promise had been made, therefore He says for you who (are) of the Jews, and for many, that is, for the multitude of the Gentiles, or through the Apostles He designates priests, by whose mediation through the administration of the sacraments the effect of the sacrament reaches others, who also pray for themselves and for others.
In the last paragraph of post #63, you seem to be presenting the objection that St. Thomas refutes as a view that he holds himself.

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If anyone objected that Jesus spoke Aramaic, not Greek, I was ready to point to the word-by-word translation from Aramaic available here.

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"so that sins may be forgiven" means that our Lord's passion made the forgiveness of sins possible. It does not mean maybe sins will be forgiven and maybe they won't, depending on the individual. The translation is ambiguous. So go back to the Bible. The Douay-Rheims has "unto remission of sins", matching what is printed in the Latin-English Booklet Missal (available here from the Coalition in Support of Ecclesia Dei). The new American Bible has "for the forgiveness of sins", which, as of 2004, was going to be the wording in the new translation of the Mass.

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Friday, November 10, 2006

About "pro multis" #2

Archive of more posts from the latest Catholic Answers Forum thread on pro multis:



Quote:
Originally Posted by bear06 View Post
I've said it before. I've NEVER heard a liberal say that all men were saved based on the "for all" translation in the canon. I've heard a myriad of reasons why liberals think all men are saved but that ain't one of them. So, who needs the commentary. You know all men aren't saved, right? The only people who bring this up is the occaisional traditionalist (note I didn't in anyway say all traditionalists). I even doubt you beloved Bugnini has said this.
How about this blogger?
Quote:
The certainty is that if this is what the Church teaches, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind whatsoever that I am not among "many." In my entire life I have never been on the winning team, and the Calvinists have already devised the tests for those who will make it and those who won't--I am in the latter category.

If this change comes about, and it sounds certain that it will, I will be reminded at every Mass of my exclusion from those for whom Jesus came. I will accept this as the teaching of the Church because I know the Church is the guardian of the truth...
Apparently, this person has not previously heard, or has not believed, that there will be a Judgment, when some will be saved and others damned.

For the above-quoted blogger, fixing the words of consecration will cause him to start worrying about damnation. Why would that be?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsorama View Post
Ha, well, you haven't arrived in blogdom if you haven't been misunderstood, usually intentionally, so I welcome myself to the club. For the record, I'm not a universalist nor did I quote a person who was a universalist. We both believe simply that no repented sin goes unforgiven. I don't see how that's controversial, and it's certainly orthodox, but then controversy is sort of the currency that makes the threads go round.
Thanks for adding that last paragraph of explanation in your blog entry. It still leaves me wondering what you mean, though. You say you and your correspondent "would like to see the correct translation in the Mass, one that derives from the literal sense of Scripture". What Jesus said literally at the Last Supper is that He would shed His blood "for many". You seem to be indicating, however, that you want to take what Jesus said literally at some other time, paraphrase it, and then pretend our Lord literally said that paraphrase at the Last Supper.

Jesus said what He said. The traditional teaching of the Church is that Jesus was talking about those who would actually be saved when He said He was shedding His blood "for many". You can read this in the section of the Roman Catechism which Giuseppe quoted. You can also see this, if you read the gospel record of our Lord's words at the Last Supper (Matthew 26:20-35, Mark 14:18-25, Luke 22:14-39, and especially John 13-17, where our Lord is quoted at greater length). Jesus speaks to and for his faithful followers, not the world at large:
"I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for the ones you have given me ... I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you".(John 17:9,20,21)

The Roman Catechism says "the many" refers to the elect. At the Last Supper our Lord talks about how the elect should act and what they should expect:
Let the greatest among you be as the youngest, and the leader as the servant (Luke 22:26)
I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another. (John 13:34)

When He does talk about the world at the Last Supper, it is not in terms of having come to save the world:
"If the world hates you, realize that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, the world would love its own; but because you do not belong to the world, and I have chosen you out of the world, the world hates you." (John 15:18-19)

What you will not find at the Last Supper accounts is Jesus saying that He came to save the whole world. This is not to deny the truth of whosebob's quote from 1 John, it is just that in these quotes, Jesus and John were teaching different lessons.


P.S. tsorama, is your correspondent Scott Carson?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancelittleewok View Post
I am not sure I understand the issue here. Jesus did die for all of humanity, not just some it of it. If he only died for some, then do we need another Savior?
The issue is, what did Jesus say at the Last Supper, when the wine became His Precious Blood? You can read the Gospels in a large number of different translations, both Catholic and Protestant, and consistently see that Jesus said He was shedding His Blood "for many". The Roman Catechism says that Jesus deliberately said "for many" rather than "for all". The new Mass in Latin, like the traditional Mass before it, says that Jesus said "for many". The Divine Liturgies of the east and the saints of both east and west say that Jesus said "for many". But the ICEL translators changed our Lord's words to "for all", and a variety of false and contradictory justifications have been offered over the years for the change.

It now appears that the Holy Father will insist on an accurate translation of our Lord's words in the consecration, and that has caused a bit of excitement amoung some.

The one Savior is sufficient, but unfortunately, due to the perverse willfulness of man, not all are saved.

+++


Dave, you quote St. Thomas twice. The first quote is an objection, the second quote is St. Thomas's reply to that same objection. If the work you are quoting is like his Summa, in his objections he presents views that are not his own.

It would be helpful to be able to read the whole article.
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsjustdave1988 View Post
St. Thomas described that it could indeed mean that Christ's blood was shed for all. While admittedly this is an incorrect translation of 'pro multis,' it is a theologically correct intepretation, depending upon if one has in mind sufficiency, not efficacy.
Quote:
"In addition, the expression pro vobis et pro multis effundetur is taken concerning the shedding as regards sufficiency or as regards efficacy. If, as regards sufficiency, thus it was shed for all, not only for many; but if as regards the efficacy which it has only in the elect, it does not seem that there should be a distinction between the Apostles and the others." [In 4 Sent., dist. 8, q. 2, art. 2, obj. C:7.]

St. Thomas replies to an objection:
Quote:
"To the seventh objection it is to be said that the Blood of Christ was poured out for all as regards sufficiency, but for the elect only as regards efficacy; and, lest it should be thought to have been poured out only for the elect Jews, to whom the promise had been made, therefore He says for you who (are) of the Jews, and for many, that is, for the multitude of the Gentiles, or through the Apostles He designates priests, by whose mediation through the administration of the sacraments the effect of the sacrament reaches others, who also pray for themselves and for others.[ibid.]
Thus, the effect or "fruit" of the shedding of Christ's blood is given to all those who the effect of the sacrament reaches, either by partaking of the Eucharist or through prayers offered on the behalf of others.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeDunphy View Post
Dave, you quote St. Thomas twice. The first quote is an objection, the second quote is St. Thomas's reply to that same objection. If the work you are quoting is like his Summa, in his objections he presents views that are not his own.
In his Summa Theologica, St. Thomas has a similar paired objection and reply:
Objection 8. Further, as was already observed (48, 2; 49, 3), Christ's Passion sufficed for all; while as to its efficacy it was profitable for many. Therefore it ought to be said: "Which shall be shed for all," or else "for many," without adding, "for you."
...
Reply to Objection 8. The blood of Christ's Passion has its efficacy not merely in the elect among the Jews, to whom the blood of the Old Testament was exhibited, but also in the Gentiles; nor only in priests who consecrate this sacrament, and in those others who partake of it; but likewise in those for whom it is offered. And therefore He says expressly, "for you," the Jews, "and for many," namely the Gentiles; or, "for you" who eat of it, and "for many," for whom it is offered.

According to St. Thomas, our Lord said "for many" because he was talking about the efficacy of His sacrifice. People may object that He should have said "for all", but what He did say is "for many".

This is clearer in the Fathers St. Thomas quotes in his Catena Aurea.

For Matthew 26:28, he quotes Remigius:
And it is to be noted, that He says not, For a few, nor, For all, but, “For many;” because He came not to redeem a single nation, but many out of all nations.

For Mark 14:24, Pseudo-Jerome:
It goes on: “Which is shed for many.”
Pseudo-Jerome: For it does not cleanse all.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear06 View Post
Mike, take a sarcasm pill an re-read. BTW, it seems that you also didn't notice and failed to copy the last part in which this blogger friend says:
Quote:
Many cheered the translation precision of "for many" for the phrase "pro multis" which in turn is a translation from the Greek for "the multitude," which, without any stretch of the imagination means, "all."

What is even more odd is that this translation is applauded without reference to its following restrictive clause--"that sins may be forgiven." This phrase restricts the meaning of the "for you and for all," it gives the purpose of this sacrifice--"That sins may be forgiven."...Now, perhaps if Jesus has said, "so that all might be saved," we'd have a good argument. But what He said is "so that all might be forgiven." The might be is not contingent upon the efficacy of the sacrifice but upon the resistance of the individual person
As you suggest, I misread the part I quoted; I read it as flakey rather than sarcastic. I did see the second part, but omitted it since I didn't think it added much. But since you mention it...

Pro multis means "for many", not "the many". The "the" that the unnamed blogger thinks is before "many" or "multitude" does not exist. And many does not mean all. Philip Goddard, in an excellent little article on pro multis and περι πολλων writes:
Quote:
in Liddell and Scott's standard Greek Lexicon, the article on πολλων extends to over two columns of small print and lists many nuances of meaning with extensive quotations from Greek literature to support the corresponding English meanings given. Nowhere, however, in Greek literature do either Liddell and Scott or the many later editors of their Lexicon record any passage where the word bears the meaning "all".
In the second paragraph, the blogger starts out interpreting "that sins may be forgiven" in way consistent with other translations of Matthew 26:28, namely that "it gives the purpose of this sacrifice". For comparison, see the New American Bible and the Douay-Rheims. But then at the end he puts an emphasis on the word may, as if Jesus had said that sins may or may not be forgiven. That is an ambiguity in English due to the wording selected by the ICEL translators of the Mass. The two translations I just mentioned do not have that ambiguity. People can also check this word-by-word translation from the Greek to see that the blogger is placing considerable weight on a word that does not exist in the original.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear06 View Post
Also, if you notice he links to Amy Welborn, Curt Jester and many more solidly Catholic sites. He's hardly a liberal who thinks all saved.
For what he writes that is good and true, I applaud him. But he still has some errors in his thinking about what pro multis means.

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I skipped over tsorama's "so that all might be forgiven", quoted by bear06 above, guessing that it was merely a typo, but I wonder if the blogger wrote it deliberately, as a paraphrase put into quotes.
tsorama himself showed up and chimed in:

Ha, well, you haven't arrived in blogdom if you haven't been misunderstood, usually intentionally, so I welcome myself to the club. For the record, I'm not a universalist nor did I quote a person who was a universalist. We both believe simply that no repented sin goes unforgiven. I don't see how that's controversial, and it's certainly orthodox, but then controversy is sort of the currency that makes the threads go round.

For a nuanced look at "pro multis", see this.
This is Scott Carson's blog. I found tsorama's blog though his link to Scott Carson's "nuanced look", where in a nuanced way, Scott says:
I do agree with you that it is, of course, possible that not all will make it to heaven. That is also a logical possibility. But since we do not know for a fact that not all will, while we do know for a fact that God wills that all make it...
I wonder whether Scott is the unnamed blogger that tsorama says is not a universalist. He doesn't assert universalism, but he does not deny it, either.

I started commenting on this post a few weeks ago, and then got sidetracked by this Catholic Answers Forums thread occuring at the same time. I hope Scott will allow new comments on an old post, because some of his remarks can and should be answered, or at least questioned.

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Saturday, March 11, 2006

John Calvin

Found here.

Geisler says elsewhere, “Even John Calvin was not an extreme Calvinist on [the atonement], for he believed that by Christ’s death ‘all the sins of the world have been expiated.’ Commenting on the ‘many’ for whom Christ died in Mark 14:24, Calvin said, ‘The word many does not mean a part of the world only, but the whole human race.’ This means that people like Jonathan Edwards, John Gerstner, and R.C. Sproul, who believe in limited atonement, are more extreme than John Calvin! Hence, they have earned the title ‘extreme Calvinists”.

---

John Calvin 1509-1564
Council of Trent December, 1545- December, 1563
Could the Roman Catechism's comments on "for many" have been at all a reaction to protestant beliefs such as the one expressed by Calvin, above?

---

Mark 14:24. This is my blood. I have already remarked that, when we are told that the blood is to be shed — according to the narrative of Matthew — FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, these words direct us to the sacrifice of the death of Christ, without the remembrance of which the Lord’s Supper is never observed in a proper manner. And, indeed, it is impossible for believing souls to be satisfied in any other way than by being assured that God is pacified towards them.

Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race; for he contrasts many with one; as if he had said, that he will not be the Redeemer of one man only, but will die in order to deliver many from the condemnation of the curse. It must at the same time be observed, however, that by the words for you, as related by Luke — Christ directly addresses the disciples, and exhorts every believer to apply to his own advantage the shedding of blood Therefore, when we approach to the holy table, let us not only remember in general that the world has been redeemed by the blood of Christ, but let every one consider for himself that his own sins have been expiated.

John Calvin, Commentary on The Harmony of The Gospels Vol. 3, in The Comprehensive John Calvin Collection (Ages Digital Library, 1998).

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Friday, February 24, 2006

Bishop Jabalé and "Pro Multis"

(From Martin Kochanski’s web site)

Hic est enim calix sanguinis mei... qui pro vobis et pro multis effundetur.

Our claim, in "The Mass is a Mess", is that these words, a direct quotation of Christ's words at the Last Supper, spoken by the priest at the Consecration (the most sacred moment of the Mass), have been deliberately mistranslated into English as "... will be shed for you and for all", instead of "for many".

On the BBC's Today programme on 14 September 2004, Bishop Mark Jabalé said:

... but in fact the Holy See itself has judged that "for all" rather than "for many" is in fact more faithful to the original Aramaic.

Let us examine this interesting claim. Let us start, indeed, by supposing that it is true. In that case we would expect to find that the most modern English translations of the Bible would similarly go for faithfulness to "the original Aramaic"; but it turns out that the New Revised Standard Version and the New Jerusalem Bible both stick firmly to "for many". Neither of these versions is noted for slavish adherence to cherished mistranslations, so clearly the translators decided that as far as they were concerned "for many" was still the best translation of the original Greek of the Gospels: "υπο πολλων". This is not surprising, since if you wanted to say "for all" in Greek you would say "υπο παντων".

In the same way the revisers of the Latin translation of the Bible (the Vulgate) have kept "pro multis" unchanged. It seems reasonable to assume that they knew what they were doing.

Remember that the original language of the Gospels as handed down to us is Greek and not Aramaic. Everyone accepts that Christ spoke Aramaic, but that is not the form in which the Gospels were written down and it is not the form in which they have come down to us. To rewrite the words of Christ according to "the original Aramaic" is to rewrite them based on conjectures about a language that has not been spoken for centuries. It is to ignore the evidence of bilingual contemporaries who spoke both Aramaic and Greek and were well able to decide what the best Greek rendering of any given Aramaic phrase might be.

The scriptural evidence for Bishop Jabalé's claim is therefore tenuous.

Could there be liturgical support for the Bishop's argument? After all, the liturgy does not hesitate to adapt biblical words and phrases to its own purposes: to take just one example, "only say the word and my soul will be healed" is an adaptation of the centurion's words in the Gospel, "only say the word and my servant will be healed". Perhaps it is simply the case that "for many" is liturgically inappropriate and needs changing.

This defence fails also.

  1. Any such argument would apply equally to the Latin and the English liturgy. The fact that the change from "pro multis" to "pro omnibus" was not made in the Latin is a strong argument that such a change ought not to be made. After all, we know (from the fact of its changing "puer meus" to "anima mea") that the Latin is not shy of making changes when they are useful.
  2. The context of the Consecration is different from "Lord, I am not worthy". The words of the Consecration are uttered by the priest but they do not constitute a statement by him. The priest's statement is that Christ took the cup and blessed it and said "XXX". Those words in quotation marks are not what the priest says, they are what the priest says that Christ said. If you are quoting someone directly then you are not allowed to alter that quotation for any reason: if you do, you are lying. In an indirect quotation you are adapting the speaker's words to your own way of speaking; in direct quotation, you aren't.

In our pamphlet we suggested that the English liturgists might have persuaded "the suave monsignors in the Vatican" that "that's not how you say it in English" when they made their changes in the text of the Mass. It was not a very serious suggestion but the Bishop's answer, "the Holy See has judged...", is actually strong evidence in its support. It is clear that despite what Bishop Jabalé words might be taken to imply, the Holy See did not judge "all" to be better than "many" in general, otherwise it would have changed "pro multis" into "pro omnibus" in the latest edition of the Roman Missal, which has only recently been published.

Jansenism

Reacting to our statement in the pamphlet that "for many" is unsettling and it is good for us to be unsettled, the Bishop stopped elegantly short of accusing us of Jansenism, a heresy of the 17th Century that (presumably) stated that salvation was not offered to the whole of mankind but to an elect. I am not, in fact, a Jansenist; but that does not mean that I am going to alter Christ's words to make them less susceptible of a Jansenistic interpretation. Altering Scripture to suit one's argument is no way to convince anyone of anything.

The thing is, if you are looking for early Jansenists, Jesus Christ really does have a case to answer. He says that his mission is to certain people only: he tells the Syro-Phoenician woman that he is sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and she has to use an elegant bit of repartee to talk him into helping her; he says that he is sent only to the sick because the healthy have no need of him. Much of the rhetoric about saving the whole world doesn't appear in the Gospels but in the early Church's growing understanding of the significance of what happened. How much of it? I don't know: I leave that to the wise and learned. But the fact that "pro multis", "for many", is there in the heart of the Mass means that I am constantly reminded that there is something more to be discovered and understood, something to wonder about. As so often, it is difficult to escape the conclusion that the English liturgists thought that thinking was too painful for congregations and the Mass must be watered down to protect them against it. As always, they are wrong.

Conclusion

It is not fair to base a whole essay on a single remark made live on an early morning radio programme. But my aim is not to crush Bishop Jabalé into the ground; merely to point out that there is still a case to answer. The fact that he thought it worth answering at all is in itself encouraging.

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Tuesday, February 21, 2006

Effunditur

http://www.geocities.com/ymjcath/MassNote.htm#Effunditur

Msgr. Klaus Gamber, in his Addendum to The Reform of the Roman Liturgy (a study generally critical of New Order), suggests that "effundetur", the future tense for it will be shed, which comes from the Greek translation used as source for the early vulgates, including St. Jerome's I would assume, could be wrong. The late Msgr. Gamber thought it might have been, instead, the present tense which was used by Our Lord, and so those in the early Church. This future tense for the word, of course, is that used in The Mass; particularly as ordered and fixed at Trent. It suggests, to some, that Our Lord died on The Cross and rose again for many, rather than all, men (meaning men, women - children, too). It has, however, been traditionally understood that Our Lord atoned for all men, but that the fruits of His Sacrifice go to many, but not all.

So Gamber makes the case it was expressed by Our Lord, and clearly understood by the early Church to differ in the Latin by a single letter, yielding the present tense - effunditur - that is, the words of the consecration should contain, rather - "which is being shed". Why such seemed to cause no confusion before just the last decades of the 20th century, in The (Latin) Mass, he seemed to suggest was the fault of the 'new theologian' (see below).

He says this matches well with certain other liturgies and the understanding of early church fathers, of the early Church, itself, essentially. By virtue of Christ's once for all immolation - His execution by the Romans, His Sacrifice for all men as the Sacrificial and so unspotted Lamb - Our Lord deigns to truly and continually offer Himself to The Father for the remission (not merely the forgiveness, I would point out) of our sins. And so, the present tense clarifies that grace is immanent in the Sacrament; regardless of the priest's own sins all else being equal, for example. If so, that was the sense even clearly understood and explained by The Church earlier in this very century, and it goes to what must be the very nature of a Sacrament.

Ultimately, Gamber is saying that the future tense he argues against says to some not the fruit of Our Lord's Sacrifice, nor the grace of The Eucharist borne on His Sacrifice, but rather suggests to modern theologians only the atonement for all men's sins. They simply changed "for many" to "for all" because they imagined the consecration suddenly referred now only, or at best primarily, to the once for all Sacrifice, on Calvary. It would tend to support the complaint against the authors of 'new order' that they imagine the 'celebration', even generally, to be little more than a neo-Protestant memorial; and with the attention on the audience and the auditorium, not on Our Lord, and so forth; that Mass is no more, replaced with a Protestant service that dares only remember Our Lord for fear of 'killing' Him, again.

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