Catholic Community Forum #10

This was my first post in a Catholic Community Forum thread that started here.
Mr. cpks and I spent most of our time talking past each other, although there were perhaps some flashes of mutual understanding. How someone could hope for Liturgiam Authenticam to be implemented, and agree that "pro multis" is Latin for "for many", yet still argue that "pro multis" should be translated as "for all", is something I still do not understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpks Much of this is true, and all of it good. However, the Fathers at Trent were not able to benefit, as we are, from several centuries of scholarly investigation into the ancient texts and the languages of biblical times.

Every Bible translation I have looked at, old or new, Catholic or Protestant, agrees with the Church Fathers that Jesus said His blood is shed "for many", rather than "for all". I looked up Matthew 26:28 and mark 14:24 in the New American Bible, The New Jerusalem Bible, the Douay-Rheims Version, the Revised Standard Version, the New Revised Standard Version, the King James,
and the New International Version, as well as a few others.

The translations uniformly state that our Lord said he would shed His blood "for many". Are you aware of any translation that says Jesus said "for all"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpks Rather charmingly, the Fathers admit that the "for you" must have involved the tacit exclusion of Judas. True - but if, and only if, Jesus was speaking of the fruits of his passion rather than the value. Yet we see from S. John that Jesus was very much aware of Judas's impending treachery; it is difficult to reconcile what Jesus said in S. John with the possibility that, had he been speaking of the fruits only, he would have forborne to mention this significant exception.

Which passage in John are you referring to? It seems like the only quote from his gospel in this discussion that you could mean is BillMc's quotation of John 17:9:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillMc "I pray for them; I pray not for the world, but for them whom thou has given me, because they are thine"

But the above quote is more consistent with Jesus' statement that He would shed His blood for many than the claim that He said He would shed His blood for all.